Why Buying Groups and AI Reasoning Could Reshape Your Automation Stack

Is Your Marketing Stack Holding You Back?

Jon Miller, co-founder of Marketo and Engagio and now founder of Phave, joins the SEJ Podcast to argue that legacy marketing automation was built for a simple, linear funnel that no longer matches how B2B buyers operate. He contends that leads are too narrow a unit and accounts too broad, and that buying groups, with their different roles and stages, are the more useful object to plan around. He also draws a line between rules, which handle fixed conditions well, and AI reasoning, which can handle the ambiguity of scoring, routing and next steps.

For brand builders, the conversation is a useful check on whether your current platform still reflects how customers actually buy. Marketing leaders weighing a renewal or a multi-year contract, and teams stitching together extra tools to cover gaps, should find the framing practical. Treat it as a prompt for an honest audit rather than a verdict on any single vendor, since Miller has a product to sell.